Heated debate in the National Council "I've never seen anything so wrong" - "Irresponsible impudence"

The National Council has once again debated the budget. Read about the second day in the ticker.

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12.05 p.m.

National Council ends debate for today

Maja Riniker closes the debate for today. It will continue tomorrow with the third budget block - before the Council of States follows next Monday. Riniker is now heading straight to her home canton. The newly elected President of the National Council will be celebrated at three locations in Aargau.

10.31 a.m.

Agriculture follows

The National Council has now moved on to agriculture in the budget debate. Follow the debate live in the stream.

10.14 a.m.

National Council cuts SEM budget

The National Council wants to make CHF 428 million available for the operation of federal asylum centers in the coming year. This is CHF 85 million less than proposed by the Federal Council. The reason for this is the announced closure of nine centers.

On Wednesday, the Grand Chamber cut expenditure for the State Secretariat for Migration (SEM) by a total of CHF 105 million compared to the Federal Council's draft budget. In addition to the federal asylum centers, the National Council also allocated CHF 20 million less for social assistance for asylum seekers, temporarily admitted persons and refugees, namely CHF 1.87 billion instead of CHF 1.89 billion.

The National Council rejected the SVP parliamentary group's request to remove funds from the migration framework credit as Switzerland's contribution to EU enlargement. Motions from the left and right for an increase or reduction in integration measures for foreign nationals were also defeated.

9.56 a.m.

We now move on to the finalization

This concludes the speeches in this block and it is now time for the finalization. Here, too, there are various votes to be taken, with several motions being compared and then gradually eliminated in a cascade until a result is reached.

9.30 a.m.

"Irresponsible impudence"

Ursula Zybach is now speaking for the SP parliamentary group. The parliamentary group rejects the cut in social welfare spending for asylum seekers. She then takes a swipe at SVP National Councillor Roman Bürgi. "This demands that we should not pay the supplementary credit we have received, contributions of 185 million, to the cantons." Zybach finds this untenable. "This is not a trick, this is irresponsible impudence."

9.15 a.m.

"People seeking protection drive around in expensive cars"

"How is it possible that people seeking protection can drive around in expensive cars and return to their home country for 15 days?" asks Roman Bürgi from the SVP next. "I sense little desire on the part of the cantons and the federal government to cut costs here." 400 million had been earmarked for the integration of people seeking protection. "When I hear that, I have to say that it must be possible to reduce the costs by 50 million. Our ancestors also emigrated, but they didn't need any help," says Bürgi.

9.12 a.m.

Moving on to people seeking protection

Next up is the block on people seeking protection, with a particular focus on refugees from Ukraine. "From the SVP's point of view, action is imperative here. Protection status S (...) must be revoked as quickly as possible. Other measures are also conceivable, such as the repatriation of Ukrainian refugees who come from safe areas," says Sandra Sollberger.

9.00 a.m.

250 million less for aid abroad

Switzerland will have less money available for aid abroad in the coming year. The National Council has cut the budget for international cooperation by CHF 250 million, against the opposition of the left as well as the GLP and the EVP.

8.43 a.m.

Now it's time for the clean-up

The next step is the clean-up. The procedure is relatively complicated. Several motions are compared with each other, then the position of the majority is compared with other motions. blue News refrains from announcing all interim results for the sake of clarity.

8.38 a.m.

"There is potential for savings"

Andreas Gafner from the SVP next speaks of "considerable savings potential." The security of the Swiss population is the top priority, which is why they support the increase in the army, for example. "But we have to slow down the additional expenditure and not end up in total financial chaos," says Gafner. When asked by Tamara Funiciello which specific projects should no longer be supported, Gafner says: "I can't name any specific projects. But there is potential for savings."

8.21 a.m.

"Financial policy on the backs of the weakest"

Marc Jost (EPP) also represents the minority in the National Council that does not want to cut development aid. "Are you not more creative?" he asks the Commission. "You are pursuing financial policy on the backs of the weakest." Development aid and security policy would go hand in hand.

8.11 a.m.

"Never experienced anything like this before"

SP Co-President Cédric Wermuth speaks first. He represents the minority that wants to maintain the level of development aid. The majority of the Finance Committee takes a different view and wants to reduce the funds. The majority of the responsible committee wants to cut CHF 250 million from the budget. "What you are doing here is wrong. I've never seen anything like it," says Wermuth. "You have no mandate for this cut and no support among the population," says the SP co-leader.

8.00 a.m.

Day 2 of the budget debate begins

The National Council's budget debate continues on Wednesday. Among other things, development aid is on the agenda today. There are likely to be heated discussions here again. blue News is ticking live.

12.55 pm

Session closed for today

This concludes the first major budget block. National Council President Maja Riniker closes the session for today. The next showdown in the battle for a budget for 2025 will take place on Wednesday, when the focus will be on development aid, among other things.

12.51 p.m.

Shooting clubs receive discounted ammunition

Another minority motion wanted to abolish reduced or even free ammunition for shooting clubs. The National Council rejects this motion by 122 votes to 70.

12.44 p.m.

National Council wants increase in armaments investment

The National Council approves the increase in armaments investment. It says yes to the Federal Council's proposal by 124 votes to 68.

12.37 p.m.

Several votes beforehand

Before the army is discussed, budget decisions are taken on the Federal Office for Cyber Security and the customs authorities, among other things. The army will follow shortly.

12.32 p.m.

Now comes the clean-up

Now comes the first vote on the adjustment of the budget. It will also be decided how much the National Council wants to make available to the army.

12.16 p.m.

Deep rift between parliamentary groups

As expected, the SVP is calling for more money for the army. "The investment in armaments is urgently needed and overdue," says SVP National Councillor Roman Bürgi. The left is "endangering the security of the population" with its minority motions, Bürgi continued.

Felix Wettstein of the Greens, on the other hand, speaks of an "urgently needed correction" in army spending. Simply spending money on armaments is not the right way to ensure security.

11.46 a.m.

Now it's all about the army

In the second block, the "security and justice" area is now being debated. Among other things, this is about the army - and a hot topic in the debate. An additional 530 million is to be spent on armaments.

The Left does not agree with this. "You are covering up defense and the army with money," says SP Co-President Cedric Wermuth.

11.09 a.m.

Minority motions in block 1 have no chance

Now it's time to vote on the details of the Confederation's own expenditure. Several minority motions, both to increase and to reduce expenditure, have no chance.

11.02 a.m.

FDP sees "considerable potential for savings"

Government priorities must be redefined", said parliamentary group spokesman Alex Farinelli (TI). In order to strengthen security, other areas would have to suffer somewhat. However, it is "essential that the federal finances are restructured". Otherwise, public finances would get "out of control".

According to the FDP, the debt brake is a popular mandate that must be defended. However, this does not mean that there will be no more investment. However, expenditure should increase less than in previous years. For example, there is "considerable savings potential" in federal personnel, said Peter Schilliger (FDP/LU).

10.32 a.m.

Now the detailed consultation begins

Detailed discussions on the budget are currently underway in the Swiss parliament. The focus is on the Confederation's own expenditure, including personnel costs and operating expenses. The parties are pursuing different strategies: While the SVP is focusing on drastic cuts, the SP and the Greens want to invest more.

The SVP has tabled numerous minority motions that primarily call for savings in the Federal Office of Public Health (FOPH) and the Federal Statistical Office. The party's aim is to significantly reduce federal expenditure in various areas.

The SP rejects all proposals for cuts and advocates higher spending in selected areas. The Greens criticize the SVP's cuts as an "all-round attack".

10.11 a.m.

Keller-Sutter puts the brakes on Amherd

At the start of the budget debate in the National Council on Tuesday, Finance Minister Karin Keller-Sutter warned against a faster increase in the army. "As long as we don't really know how we are going to finance this, it will be difficult."

If parliament wants to increase spending on the army to one percent of gross domestic product (GDP) as early as 2030 and not in 2035, there will no longer be any room for maneuver in terms of financial policy, said Keller-Sutter. "Then they may also have to discuss additional revenue."

In addition to the army, expenditure for the 13th AHV pension and probably for the EU research program Horizon Europe and the EU Cohesion Fund would also increase in the coming years. In addition, there would be ongoing reform projects to abolish the imputed rental value and introduce individual taxation. All of this would have to be financed.

Keller-Sutter spoke of the "painful cuts" that the National Council Commission had requested in the course of the army increase. In particular, the proposed savings in international cooperation (IC) were "problematic". It is likely that projects will have to be canceled. This could lead to reputational damage for Switzerland.

9.27 a.m.

Greens criticize "aimless armament"

For the Green parliamentary group, the federal budget drawn up by the responsible National Council committee is "unacceptable". The army is being rearmed without a plan.

"There are two sacred cows in this chamber: the debt brake and the army," said Felix Wettstein (Greens/SO) on Tuesday during the general debate on the 2025 budget. In key points, the Finance Committee's proposals went "in exactly the wrong direction".

Wettstein described the fact that expenditure on armaments is to be increased by 35% within one year as wrong. "We don't even know what the money is to be spent on." He appealed to the National Council to return to the "path of virtue".

9.12 a.m.

GLP: "Proposals not balanced"

In the view of the GLP parliamentary group, the Finance Committee's proposals for the 2025 budget are not balanced and does not want to approve the budget as drafted by the committee. The GLP is calling for cuts to humanitarian aid to be avoided.

The efforts to achieve a balanced budget and more financial policy leeway are to be welcomed, said parliamentary group leader Corina Gredig (ZH) on Tuesday. However, Switzerland is a symbol of stability, multilateral cooperation and humanitarian responsibility. "This is part of Switzerland's self-image."

"Humanitarian responsibility is not a burden, but a long-term investment," said Gredig. Those who neglect peacebuilding and international stability risk conflict. If the Commission majority's concept were to pass, the GLP would not be able to agree. "We don't want to gamble away the humanitarian legacy."

For Gredig, it is wrong to increase the army by half a billion and at the same time jeopardize the humanitarian tradition. She also described it as wrong to increase funding for agriculture, while all other areas would have to accept cutbacks.

8.58 a.m.

Center group wants a budget that complies with the debt brake

The Center Group wants to adhere to the requirements of the debt brake when budgeting and adhere to previous parliamentary decisions when discussing the 2025 budget. "In doing so, we are assuming fiscal responsibility and making reliable policy," said spokesperson Pius Kaufmann (LU).

The majority of his parliamentary group want to follow the Finance Committee's proposals, Kaufmann said on Tuesday in the National Council's budget debate. He called for the growth in federal spending to be limited. This was the only way to achieve structural surpluses again and regain room for maneuver.

"This requires discipline: new expenditure must be consistently counter-financed," said Kaufmann. If the federal government has to take on new tasks from the cantons, the distribution key for direct federal tax must be adjusted. In the case of new tasks, it must be examined which other tasks could be reduced or have already been eliminated.

8.50 a.m.

SVP wants more security for Switzerland

More security for Switzerland, defending the tried-and-tested debt brake, no tax increases: These are the three guiding principles of the SVP parliamentary group in the debate on the federal budget for the coming year.

Parliament must finally open its eyes and set the right priorities, said SVP parliamentary group spokesperson Lars Guggisberg (BE) on Tuesday during the general debate on the 2025 budget. "We must come to our senses and take responsibility."

According to Guggisberg, finances have gotten out of hand in recent decades. Federal expenditure had almost tripled. At the same time, economic output has only doubled.

"The fact that the state is growing faster than the economy is not a good development." Parliament had set its priorities naively, was short-sighted and naive, and the SVP was not interested in saving money, said Guggisberg. "It's about less spending growth."

Spending on social welfare and development aid in particular must be curbed. "We are currently sending billions of taxpayers' money abroad."

Instead, the SVP advocates strengthening the army's defense capabilities, food and agriculture. In addition, the "proven debt brake" must be retained. "Today's debts are tomorrow's taxes," said Guggisberg.

8.29 a.m.

SP threatens to reject budget

The SP rejects massively higher army spending and is threatening to reject the budget. "Should a majority significantly increase army spending at the expense of international cooperation (IC) and federal personnel, the SP will reject the budget," it said in a press release. "Not only would the right-wing parties once again show that their financial policy is short-sighted and their security policy haphazard, they would also show that they specifically want to prevent investments in equality, climate protection and social security."

8.00 a.m.

Welcome to the budget debate

From today, Tuesday, the National Council will be debating the federal government's 2025 budget. In times of tight finances and due to the requirements of the debt brake, tough debates are to be expected.

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With material from Keystone-SDA.

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