Bötschi asks Georgine Kellermann "The good Lord chose the wrong packaging for me"

At 62, Georgine Kellermann made it public that she was trans. Now she looks back in her autobiography. A conversation about her double life, lack of courage - and why she still has a happy life.

Ms. Kellermann, are you a brave person?

I'm not brave - but I can sense when I need to be careful.

You led a double life for over 40 years, in your professional life you were a man, in your private life you lived as a woman - do you sometimes get annoyed today that you weren't braver and dared to come out earlier?

I don't think it has anything to do with courage, but with caution. If you take yourself back to 40 years ago, you'll realize that it wouldn't have been possible for me to be who I am and continue doing what I was doing professionally.

I imagine a double life is complicated - the frequent changes of clothes alone. Did that take a lot of energy - or was it perhaps also appealing from time to time?

A double life does indeed cost a lot of energy. And it was never appealing. A double life is wasted time while you have to play the role. But it's not that I didn't like life as Georg - since I came out, it has become even more enjoyable.

In your autobiography "Georgine - The Long Road to Myself", which has just been published, you write that even before puberty you felt that you were different from other children. Can you put these feelings into words?

About the author: Bruno Bötschi

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blue News editor Bruno Bötschi regularly talks to well-known personalities from Switzerland and abroad for the question-and-answer game "Bötschi fragt". He asks them lots of questions - always direct, often funny and sometimes profound. It always remains open until the very last question as to where the fast-paced ping-pong will lead.

I find it difficult to put this into words - and I'm sure I would have had difficulty expressing these feelings in words as a child too. I think it takes a certain level of experience to be able to explain this state.

When I was a child, the word "trans" didn't even exist and people like me were only a few and far between back then. At the end of the 1970s, the topic of "trans" was discussed in the newspapers for the first time - and often in a smug way ...

... probably in a similar way to how the media often only showed drag queens and other shrill birds of paradise in their reports on CSD and Pride events, even though the queer community is just as diverse as the rest of humanity.

That always irritated me too, even though I think the colorful and shrill nature of many drag queens is great. Before I came out, however, I never took part in queer demonstrations.

Why not?

If I had gone, I would have done it as Georgine. But I didn't dare.

In your autobiography, you describe how you let off steam in your mother's closet as a teenager - until you were caught.

Getting caught was a drama above all because I realized at that moment: I wasn't allowed to be me. I wasn't threatened with any consequences, but I immediately realized: this story is over.

Why?

The very next day, my parents stopped talking about the incident. It was as if nothing had happened. Years later, my mother explained to me that she hadn't known anything about being trans at the time. That sounded like an apology to me. But it wasn't necessary.

Why not?

My mother was born in 1930. She couldn't have known that there were different identities.

"I thought so. Mother always made such strange hints," your father is said to have said dryly when you invited him to dinner in the mid-1980s and came out to him.

We had a delicious meal that evening until I said at some point: "Listen, Dad, I'm a woman."

Had you planned it that way?

No.

What did your father's reaction do to you?

It wasn't malicious. Dad was just like that.

In the foreword to your book, you write that none of your friends rejected or disappointed you after you told them your secret. Did that surprise you?

I was thrilled that my worries were unfounded - but I wasn't really surprised. Every time I came out, it became easier.

When did you feel that you could tell someone your secret?

It was just a feeling. Trust outweighed mistrust.

Many trans people experience rejection after coming out - in the world of work, for example. You were an ARD correspondent in Washington and Paris. Was this the main reason why you lived as a man at work for years because you thought you would lose your job?

Yes, that was my biggest worry. I loved my job as a correspondent for the rest of my life and feared that this would no longer be possible as Georgine. I once spoke to a comedian who also worked for ARD. He told me that he had once been advised not to make his gayness public.

Did this conversation confirm that you had not turned your soul inside out when you were young?

Absolutely. I am also aware that tolerance in society is exhausted at some point. I feel this again today when certain circles say that enough is enough with the topic of "trans". That's why I'm convinced that it's good to exercise a certain amount of caution with your demands from time to time.

I always tell my trans friends when they are unfairly criticized to simply say: "And by the way, I pay taxes like everyone else in this country."

(Laughs) That's absolutely right.

You came out when you were 62, four years ago, after meeting a female colleague at the train station. The woman recognized you despite your make-up and women's clothes. What happened in your head back then?

After the colleague asked me "Mr. Kellermann, are you in disguise?", I reflexively replied: "No, I'm a woman." When the colleague replied with the word "Cool" after a second of processing, it sounded like a confirmation.

Shortly afterwards, you came out on a Facebook page. Was that also a reflex?

No, I thought about it very carefully during the train journey from Düsseldorf to Frankfurt Airport. I started creating the Facebook page at the same time. Just before I got off the train, I took another look at myself - and then I decided: I'm going to do it now. As soon as the page was online, I already had my first likes. I also know from stories that the wires were immediately burning hot in the background and some people were asking themselves: Is it really her? Or is it all a fake?

Where did you suddenly find the courage to do this after 62 years?

I don't know.

How did you feel the morning you went to work for the first time as head of the WDR regional studio in Essen, i.e. as a woman?

It felt like flying. I remember driving to the office in my car. I can't remember the music on the radio, but I do remember being completely relaxed. I soaked up every second of the journey.

How did you greet your colleagues at work?

It was the same as always: I opened the door and we greeted each other. I didn't notice that anyone was watching me in particular. On that Monday, a new roster model was implemented at our editorial office. As a result, many employees had new tasks to take on and didn't have much time to think about Georgine. The next day, however, we organized a conference.

Did the employees have a lot of questions for you?

First there was applause.

Did they applaud because they had to?

It was very warm-hearted applause. And that hasn't changed to this day. Of course there were also questions ... or rather: there was a lot of encouragement - even from people I had had little contact with up until then. That was particularly nice.

There were no unpleasant reactions?

No.

They say that trans people go through a kind of second puberty. Not just a physical one, i.e. through any hormone therapy, but also through what they have to relearn: What are the codes among women? Are there rules in the changing room? Who taught you all this?

I always say that the good Lord chose the wrong packaging for me. That's why I do everything I can to avoid showing them off in places like swimming pools or saunas. I go swimming in an open lake. I can manage that. But I don't go into women's changing rooms.

Does that mean you wouldn't go to a women's bathing establishment either?

I would only do that if all the women there really said: "Georgine, come with me."

Are you treated differently as a woman today?

I don't notice anything in direct contact. However, when I read the comments under the reports about my biography, I sometimes ask myself: how can a normal person write something so terrible?

In your autobiography, you write about an incident in Munich. In October 2021, you were invited to the Media Days there to talk about the visibility of transgender and queerness in the German media.

I walked back to the hotel from the event. There was a lot of traffic on the road. Cars could only move at walking pace. A Munich police team bus approached in the traffic jam. I sensed that I was of particular interest to the driver and co-driver. The police didn't take their eyes off me and were obviously having fun. At first I wanted to go on. But then I decided that I didn't want to put up with this kind of behavior.

What happened next?

I turned around and walked straight towards the bus. The window was then quickly closed. The policemen couldn't drive away, the traffic jam prevented them from doing so. So I knocked on the window and asked them to open it again. When the window was down, I said to the police officers that their behavior was absolutely disrespectful. Nobody on the bus said anything. Then I went on my way.

You later wrote the following tweet on X: "Is it normal, dear Munich police, that the officers on the team bus make fun of people like me? I went and told them that their behavior was disrespectful ... Thank you!"

Thousands of X users added a little heart to my tweet. The solidarity was overwhelming and the Munich police also contacted me: "It is neither normal nor acceptable to make fun of anyone. We would like to investigate the matter. Please send us the location ... where the situation took place."

Did you do that?

No.

Why not?

It wasn't about disciplining the people on the bus. I wanted to promote more respect and that all people should be able to live their lives.

Did one of the police officers from the police van contact you later?

No - but I understand that.

The officers would have shown greatness.

That's true. But either way, it turned out well for me.

The second part of the interview with Georgine Kellermann will be published on blue News on Sunday, June 16.

"Georgine - Der lange Weg zu mir selbst", Georgine Kellermann, 288 pages, Ullstein Verlag, approx. 27 Fr.

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